#I like both interpretations but that one’s just more interesting to me personally

[waifuoftomonori]

The tags: Purgatory, Kidnapping, Drowning. I need more information, I'm spinning it a fourth time. ...Self-Sacrifice. I can't tell if that made things clearer or even more puzzling. Here's what I'm thinking happens so far: I drown myself to save someone else, which is both suicide and heroic (maybe we're on a sinking ship and I give up my lifeboat or something-- kinda lame, I'd hope it's a little more exciting than that), so I get sent to purgatory instead of straight to heaven or hell while they (whoever "they" are in this fanfiction) figure out what to do with me. Or maybe I just stay in purgatory and explore and learn valuable lessons about the meaning of life. It's unclear. But where the hell does kidnapping factor into that? Does my drowning myself somehow save the kidnapped person? Was I kidnapped? Did I kidnap someone else in order to ensure they'd keep the Ultimate Destruction Device under control while my body finished attuning to it until I was ready to fight the apocalypse and then die (via drowning myself, I guess) for the person I loved? Second idea: it's some kind of dark kink fic, which would explain the kidnapping (presumably by an obsessive and/or protective love interest) and the drowning. Maybe it takes place in purgatory. Maybe I was kidnapped and taken to purgatory so the person could drown me and commit the perfect crime because no one would think to search purgatory for my body. (I don't see myself as the kidnapper in this scenario. Could I potentially be a kidnapper in someone else's popular fanfiction of me? ...Maybe. I have an obsessive side, although it usually doesn't manifest as kidnapping and murder. Maybe the writer just felt like giving a really dark, yandere take on my character. Maybe this is a dead dove fic.) Doesn't explain the self-sacrifice, but eh, that was the bonus fourth tag, I think we can leave it off. I guess I'm fine with either interpretation of me. They're both pretty inaccurate, but at least I'm some kind of martyr in the first one, and the second one is kinky (albeit a little extreme for me).

Spin this wheel of ~300 AO3 tags three times.

[lesbianherald]

Based Jayce take tbh….also I’m gonna confess this on anon but one of my most pretentious takes when it comes to fandom is that everything would be way easier to enjoy if ppl understood story structure a little more. Like Jayce’s arc is a negative arc. He sucked on purpose! If you had bad feelings about him that was intentional and okay (I do think Jayce hate was overblown but I also get why it existed. Like the audience was just picking up on the feelings the show was putting down). But he was definitely Like That for a reason! Usually in good writing, characters are tools for the narrative first you know…you don’t need to justify his actions to like Jayce because he’s fictional and he’s not a real person youre stanning. But also fandom is for fun so I know this take is pretentious but also it’s my truth. My story structure….my characters who are intentionally challenging my theme….my character arc….

NO NO BUT YOU ARE COOKING ON EVERY LEVEL !!!!

(Note: This randomly turned into a very hasty analysis of the shots used in the bridge scene? Because I got on a tangent about how we interpret visual storytelling as well and oops!)

Story structure is so overlooked. The role characters are supposed to play in an overarching narrative is overlooked. So much gets ignored in the way information is presented both in the story structure and visually that sometimes it frightens me and it makes me really bummed! And it's nobody's fault! Most of us live in a society that devalues art and literacy on purpose!

I don't think it's pretentious to wish people better understood the building blocks of the story or at least understood how to take in general arcs. And I think if they did as a whole most fandom spaces would be a lot more interesting and have a lot less bizarre takes/infighting.

I also think that - where arcane's writing can get weird and murky - the visual language will cover it. (Almost to an extreme.)

It makes me think of one of my favorite scenes in the whole show and how misinterpreted it gets and how quick people are to defend jayce here despite how much it is playing on the themes of the show and how clearly he is painted as in the wrong both by the writing and the shots ok fuck -

I think all the time about the imbalance of power represented by that insane low angle on Jayce. You know what fuck it. I'm going to go get it. Fuck. This is about to become a whole thing. Okay.

If I brought an angle like this into a classroom setting, I would be laughed at for it being too obvious. But its one of my favorites because its so visceral. In fact, I've shown this to a lot of friends - the reaction to this shot is usually an audible "Woah!" or even nervous laughter! Because clearly! He's supposed to be intimidating here. This is supposed to be like. Oh. He is not who he used to be. Oh. Oh no. Its so co clearly a representation of power and corruption you may as well stamp it on his forehead.

He's not only Jayce here, he's a representation of piltover as a whole - in its physical and political positions over Zaun. In a position of power over someone he's close with, who just verbally told someone he would "understand." Now we are seeing that he very likely wont. (He will! But right now, we are supposed to be with Viktor in this scene. We are supposed to become convinced he won't right with him!)

Note that the angle we get for Viktor is way less extreme. Way more eye level. And less centered. I could go on about this too. But oooh boy. Like! Clearly we are supposed to be more with him in terms of who we find rational. Clearly he's the voice of reason here. We are level with him. He is at a safe distance. We are seeing how he is looking up at jayce without looking down at him.

In this shot, he is someone we as an audience are level with, who is gathering information, making a decision. He is remaining more measured than I think the audience is supposed to be given the angle we're getting on jayce.

The only time we do get the "reverse" of that Jayce shot on Viktor is when he is quite literally standing out of the frame almost immediately. Whose furious with the position Jayce is putting him in. This is Right after Jayce says, "They're dangerous." He's gathered the information he needs. He sees Jayce for what he is. Somebody he cannot trust. And he refuses to be put in this lower position.

Jayce is not supposed to be the one we are rooting for here. He is the person we are supposed to be disappointed in. We are supposed to question him here. This isn't only dramatically spelled out in the narrative but also in the shot choicesss!

And then we have the apology -

That's why i always question why people are like. Okay but he apologized. When the apology is framed like this! We don't even get to see viktor's face because the damage is done!! JAYCE ISNT EVEN LOOKING AT HIM !!!! It doesn't matter. We don't even get full access to Jayce here! What's at the center of this shot is the barricade that Jayce has ordered!!! This makes the apology, and "I've had a lot on my plate" purposefully look ridiculous in the context of the Narrative here! It's not enough!

Viktor is DYING. And jayce is standing here all prim and proper, with the Talis symbol very visible in that fuckass suit, saying he's had a lot on his plate. We're very clearly not supposed to look at this and go awww! baby boy <3. If this apology was a meaningful moment for either of them that changed either of their minds - it would not be framed like thisssss. These words are empty in the context of it all. Jayce may be genuinely sorry, but he's accidentally revealed way too much about how he views Viktor's people. Even if he didn't mean to. Even if he didn't realize how deeply his biases ran.

And then we have Viktor lying. Viktor knowing he has to go about this alone. And this is the shot. This is the moment of fracture. Viktor looking back at him in disgust with Jayce's barricade in the background. HES ALONE!! JAYCE HAS FAILED HIM !!! This is so critical in understanding Viktor's entire everything moving forward, and it's so so critical for Jayce as well.

People talk a lot about that moment where jayce has his hand on Viktor's lower back because yaoi but that screencap is so hard to get because that moment is almost immediately interrupted by a protestor from zaun throwing a Molotov cocktail in their direction! And the touch, that reluctant familiarity, despite the conflict, gets broken.

Something that I think gets overlooked is Jayce's face after the (Molotov?) gets thrown by a protestor. ITS ANOTHER LOW ANGLE LIKE!!! Once again. Highlighting the power he has here.

We see Jayce in season 1 act 1 really highlighted with a lot of high angles. A lot of doe-eyed wonder. He looks young. Sweet. This is not the same jayce and it is very very clear in the way he is shot. This is the point !!!!!.

There are a lot of scenes i see misinterpreted but this is the big one. And its one of my favorite scenes. Because he's so wrong here! And he doesn't really fully grasp how much so yet.

I love jayce. I love my complex man. Because here's the thing. He needed this low to reach the character highs he does later. Jayce being as loving and determined to make things right as he is in season 2 wouldn't be nearly as compelling or tragic or exciting were he not like this in season 1. It's brutal to watch him get punished by the narrative! But it's also narratively satisfying!

Anyways anon i agree wholeheartedly sorry i made it into a whole thing.

[communist-hatsunemiku]

this might be a strange take but as someone who was groomed and who had what i would call an "elitist" mindset towards it, zako really seemed like it was about that mentality. of knowing you were playing with fire but feeling like you were above it. and for that i was really attached to it for the 2 hours it was out. the more logical side of me KNOWS its more likely a play off mimukawa nice try but i would love to believe it was meant to cater to a different audience than loli-cons. what's your take on the fiction vs reality of it? do you think westerners are just overreacting

I think you're interpretation of the song is valid, and pretty interesting tbh! I had not thought about that at all, and it's a case for letting people interpret the song in their own way. Instead of kowtowing to the loudest, most offended people. I also think the fact the creators literally took down the song amid backlash is pretty strong evidence they didn't make a song "for lolicons". They obviously did not anticipate this reaction, Channel admitted to having reservations, and tried to make Yuuki somewhat older-looking in the video. Whether you think she does or not, is up for (good faith!) debate. I do think she does not look like the literal box art version of the character, but that's kind of beside the point.

there is no fiction vs. reality debate because there are no real human beings harmed in the making of this song. Like, full stop. The "well kaai yuuki has a child VA" shit doesnt hold water cuz that person is an adult now anyway, and there are plenty of other songs featuring her that go wayyyy beyond this one. Like it's just something people reached for out of convienence. Same for "it violates her TOS!" like no one gave a fuck about Kaai Yuuki's TOS before it became a convenient cudgel in this particular situation.

The thing is, no one can have conversations about stuff like this in good faith because you are immediately labeled some kind of monster for trying to have any kind of nuanced opinion. Any dissent from "this song/movie/book is irredeemably evil and your sick for defending it" is taken as proof that you are a pervert monster. It's such a clear example of people, willfully and gleefully, diving into reactionary thinking without a shred of thought.

When really, I do think having an actual conversation about lolicon causing you discomfort is totally normal, and it's a pretty reasonable response to this stuff! But people can't just say that, they have to burn the whole thing to the ground, in the name of "protecting kids" or whatever bullshit they come up with. I don't actually like a good portion of Miku art for the same reasons people didn't like Zako! There was art going around on twitter of Miku with a literal binkie in Her mouth like a baby, and that shit was kind of weird! But I just didn't engage with it, that's it. People whipped each other up about the "harms" of this song, when simply not liking or engaging with it at all would have been the normal thing to do.

Freak outs like this do not protect anybody from anything. My big hot take is that having a moral panic about literally anything has more potential for actual harm than whatever it is people are panicking over. You simply cannot make rational, thoughtful decisions that prioritize protecting people from abuse when you are in a panic, or listening to people who are in a panic. You just can't!! It's not how shit works!

I know I have other asks about this, but I'm kind of trying to answer here, definitively, and let the topic dissipate. I'm glad I got the video downloaded, and we'll see what they release to appease all the weirdos who freaked out about the song. People objected to both the video and the lyrics themselves, so I don't know how they're going to come out with a new version that isn't radically different than the original. We'll see.

[vynxwave]

Share your thoughts on MegaSound? It was one of my first Transformers ships and even though it's not a rarepair or anything it's oddly less popular than I'd expect, and I don't see a lot of analysis of what their relationship is actually like in various canons

I'd love to! Yeah, finding out it's not as popular as I thought was surprising. With Soundwave often depicted as loyal to Megatron, I really would've thought it'd be more popular than it is. You're definitely right about there being a lack of analyses on their relationship, so I think I'll eventually make a post analyzing their relationship in various canons. For this post I'll be going over how I see MegaSound (and from what parts of canon I derive it from) and sharing thoughts about its (lack of) popularity/prevalence.

Here I'll note the basis of canon I ship them from across various continuities where they have a positive relationship*:

Megatron likes monologuing in Soundwave's presence and talking with him (Dreamwave Generation 1 (2002) #4, Megatron Origin #4, IDW Robots in Disguise (2012) #22, Prime). Considering Soundwave's continued steadfast loyalty, I'd reckon he likes hearing him talk/plan.

Soundwave is Megatron's confidant (War Within #2, Prime, IDW Robots in Disguise (2012) #17, IDW 2019)

The both care for each other's continued functioning (Soundwave does so consistently in loyalist depictions, and for Megatron it depends on the continuity/writer but is often true of him too (though, Soundwave doesn't get injured often); [specifics cited later in this post])

Soundwave's loyalty even extends to when Megatron loses his marbles (WFC: Kingdom E03, Galvatron in Sunbow G1 S3E14 & Headmasters E02 & E04), but his loyalty does not extend to Megatron defecting from the Decepticons (IDW Dark Cybertron, EarthSpark) due to Soundwave's loyalty to the Decepticon Cause.

Dreamwave Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye #6 Soundwave's character bio written from Megatron's perspective expressing his uncertainty of whether he can risk lending his trust and friendship to Soundwave is one of my favorite things with them.

(*this mostly excludes where Soundwave's characterized as a self-serving opportunist and where Megatron treats him as just another subordinate)

My MegaSound Thoughts

(Preface: Inspiration taken from all over, but classic Decepticon Cause and they're both as evil as typical. I ship them in various canons but here I describe a broad overview of ways I interpret this pairing and what aspects I'm interested in. I tried to avoid citing Soundwave's self-serving opportunistic depictions for the most part, but he often has a lot of character I like in them xD.)

For me their ship is built upon their longstanding mutual trust, respect, and reliability; especially compounded with the fact many of their comrades' loyalty is prone to wavering from time to time (whereas Soundwave has continuously stuck by his side). I also like to focus on Soundwave's staunch loyalty to and belief in Megatron and the Cause he embodies — and, importantly, Megatron's recognition of this.

For Megatron I like to think about what valuing someone in such a way means to a tyrant whose sights are set on control, destruction, and personal power.

I think Soundwave's competence, strength, devotion, skills, and intelligence would all be appealing to Megatron. Soundwave, with said qualities, has made himself indispensable to the Decepticons, and therefore indispensable to Megatron himself.

Perhaps one reason Megatron is drawn to Soundwave would be for the steadfast security he provides (compared to the unreliability/treachery of others).

Though, with Megatron being surrounded by the infighting/treachery of Decepticons, I think it would be natural for him to sometimes be uncertain of whether his closeness with Soundwave is as safe/secure as it seems (inspired by Dreamwave More Than Meets The Eye #6's Soundwave bio written from Megatron's perspective) due to how much sensitive information and vulnerability Soundwave's been trusted with. But any such feared betrayal would not come to pass, because Soundwave sides with him, including in his times of need.

All I've written so far assumes a wishy-washy loyalty in Megatron's other followers; for where he has other loyalists, perhaps Soundwave is just one of his oldest followers (Sunbow G1 "War Dawn", Dreamwave G1 (2004) #10, IDW 2019, Prime S1E26) and his loyalty is ultimately tried and true.

Time and time again, Soundwave is shown to care about Megatron's continued functioning/well-being (Sunbow G1 "MTMTE, Part 3" [Soundwave warning Megatron of Starscream's attack], Transformers: The Movie, War Within #6, Prime, All Hail Megatron #13, Fall of Cybertron [saddened at Megatron's death & later rebuilds him], Retribution ["And if it turned out he couldn’t save Megatron, Soundwave knew what his duty demanded. / Vengeance on everybody involved."], Transformers vs. The Terminator #2 [Soundwave repairs Megatron's optic], WFC: Kingdom E03).

In cases where Soundwave has been injured/killed, this has often been true of Megatron too (Transformers (2009) #17 [this & AHM #13 were both written by Costa — making this mutual care of each other's continued functioning intentional, I presume], Prime S2E14, Headmasters E02 & E04 if including Galvatron, WFC: Kingdom E03 [where Dinobot downs Soundwave then Megatron comes swinging]).

For Soundwave I first want to detail the basis of his character as I think it's important to recognize his beliefs and personality. His personality and how much is shown ultimately depends on the continuity and writer; and varies depending on if the writer favors the Marvel UK G1 Soundwave (self-serving opportunist) or the Sunbow G1 Soundwave (loyalist) depiction.

Soundwave believes himself to be superior to others (to other lifeforms, to Autobots, and even to fellow Decepticons) and it's not just a cool line, but an actual sentiment/belief he holds (Transformers: The Movie, Spotlight: Soundwave, Revolutionaries #3, Skybound Transformers #7, Animated S1E10 Sound and Fury), and it is continuously embodied in his actions and loyalty to the Decepticon Cause (conquest & domination). Following this, Megatron's ideals of Decepticon superiority must appeal to Soundwave greatly — as a result, their vision of the future and values are quite similar.

Soundwave has (well, if the continuity depicts it) a negative reputation among other Decepticons, with others actually being aware of his monitoring and subsequent reporting to Megatron (Prime S1E13 [among other episodes], implied in Robots in Disguise (2012) #11... I think, Earth Wars: Sea Phantom: "[...] The walls have audio receptors, if you know what I mean." / Coelagon: "Yeah, Soundwave has the place wired for sound.", Sunbow G1 "Countdown to Extinction" & "The Golden Lagoon"). Instead of such a reputation being a negative for Soundwave, it is something he has intentionally fostered for indirect power and control over the other Decepticons; and by doing this he's made Megatron hold him in high esteem (Prime, Dreamwave More Than Meets the Eye #6 [Soundwave's Bio], All Hail Megatron #10) and positioned himself securely in the Decepticon's upper ranks.

In line with his beliefs of superiority, Soundwave personality-wise is quite confident and secure. This is also true of his standing with Megatron (for reasons described above).

Following Soundwave's colder depictions, perhaps one of the bots he finds himself the most "warm" to or emotionally responsive to is Megatron, even if he may not express this the same way most others might (but I'd think Megatron would understand it, due to his perceptiveness and having known him a long time).

With Soundwave generally not being much of a conversationalist, I'd think Megatron easily makes up for this with all his talking and monologuing (they are so [eloquent] yapper x listener to me). Given Soundwave's continued loyalty, I'd like to think he quite likes hearing Megatron's voice and his ideas/plans; for Megatron I'd like to think he enjoys an intelligent and receptive audience and finds it in Soundwave (who gets to hear his words/plans unfiltered from the manipulative rhetoric he gives others), and likes Soundwave's encouragement and amoral pragmatism. As Megatron's confidant, Soundwave gets to hear him at his most honest (Dreamwave War Within #2, IDW Primacy #4, Prime).

I like to think about how them both being evil impacts what activities they find enjoyable. Moments in various canons that come to mind: All Hail Megatron #1 (where Megatron's like "Soundwave, if you will?" then >:D when Soundwave diverts the missiles), Prime S2E22 ("You should have seen Optimus Prime's face when his precious Star Saber shattered like glass [...]"), and Retribution Ch. 9 (where Soundwave really wants to show Megatron a playback of him and Ravage interrogating/torturing Decepticon traitor Axer for information that Megatron wanted). Could sharing the joy of violence be an evil love language xD?

For angst I think there's a lot of potential based in EarthSpark or Headmasters (the same is true of IDW 2005, though I won't be expanding on it here).

For EarthSpark there's S1E08 0:24 & 2:30 plus a sentence from the guidebook: "Soundwave believes that anyone who defects from the Decepticons is a traitor, and he considers Megatron the worst traitor of all!" Based on their interactions and dialogue (S1E08 Decoy "Don't make this personal, Soundwave." "It already is."), it's apparent that they used to be close before Megatron switched sides; and Soundwave's feelings impact Megatron a lot! Soundwave's recording calling out his hypocrisy invokes such a rage in him; and Soundwave calling him a traitor disheartens him, making him lower his cannon (and he would've been blasted had Optimus not intervened)!

For Headmasters Soundwave/Soundblaster would witness how much Galvatron differs from Megatron — how insane he's become, but also how distant he's become from him. (The Headmasters E04 & E10)

In general, I think there could be angst found in Megatron's favorite trope: getting put out of commission for a duration of time. Or, that trope could be bestowed upon Soundwave for a change xD (like in Transformers (2009) #17). Exploring the consequences of Megatron's hubris or lust for power could be fun too.

Favorite Moments in Various Canons

Dreamwave More Than Meets The Eye #6 Soundwave's bio:

[From the Datatracks of Megatron, Decepticon Leader] What is more valuable to a commander, loyalty or reliability? Loyalty is a luxury, but reliability is a necessity for effective military operations. Soundwave exemplifies the latter while projecting as much as the former as realistically possible. He is an indispensable lieutenant and a fierce warrior, with seemingly unshakeable loyalty to me and our cause. When I enter into combat with Soundwave beside me, I am assured that he will perform his role unerringly. I am, however, well aware of his blackmailing of other Decepticons and the fearsome retribution he takes on any who attempt cross him, safe in the knowledge that he is virtually untouchable in his current position. His flaunting of his role have caused many to turn against him, which has only strengthened his need for my favor and implicit protection. Thus far, Soundwave has been utterly faithful to my commands and risked his own life on my behalf several times. But is he only biding his time until his own power base is secure enough? Many great commanders have been undone by trust and friendship in the past… can I afford to extend these to even my most capable solider?

Dreamwave War Within #6 & Generation 1 (2004) #10 (Also, throughout Dreamwave's run Soundwave is actually visibly by Megatron's side, which I think is a pretty neat detail)

All Hail Megatron #13 & Transformers (2007) #17

I enjoyed their dynamic in IDW 2019 because of how visibly instrumental Soundwave is to the Decepticon's rise, and his subsequent importance to Megatron. (#5) (#16) (#26)

Soundwave's sheer nonchalance at getting yelled at/scolded by Megatron who was breaking things in rage (#11) was so funny to me... Soundwave knows he's too important.

In Fall of Cybertron (37:15) Soundwave reaches out sadly to Megatron's hand sticking out from beneath rubble (thanks to Megatron's hubris getting himself scrapped)

In WFC: Kingdom E03 Soundwave is concerned about Megatron and tries to caution/advise him, but it goes unheeded.

The Transformers (2003) PS2 Japan: nearly every time Soundwave and Megatron talk... ["Lord Megatron, I'm glad you're unharmed!], ["This is how a subordinate should behave!"], ["No, don't apologize. You are not to blame"], ["..."], ["high price"], [deferring to Soundwave's judgement]

I haven't actually watched Robots in Disguise (2015), but its portrayal of Soundwave's devoutness is pretty cool... specifically in S3E21 Collateral Damage what he says at the timestamp 5:49:

Soundwave: "[...] when [the transgalactic beacon generator is] activated at the highest point in the city it would transmit a signal strong enough to summon Megatron back to Earth." Sideswipe: "[...] but that much radiation won't just call Megatron it'll—" Soundwave: "—devastate the city, then spread to eradicate all life on Earth. Incidental collateral damage."

I don't know how to describe how much I love the coldness/callousness in his inconsideration for an entire planet, all for the sole purpose of getting Megatron back.

(Lack of) Popularity

I've thought about the reasons for the ship's lack of popularity/prevalence. The one that jumps out the most to me is that there's a lack of in-depth exploration into their relationship in canon despite their constant proximity and importance to each other — as in, plots hardly ever test/strain/strengthen their relationship (to elaborate, there's rarely tension between them, and when there is it's minor and carries no meaningful weight).

Well, IDW 2005 did do some things with their relationship, but it didn't feel as in-depth as other relationships because their backstory together (which occurred in phase 1 with Soundwave's self-serving opportunistic characterization) was recontextualized/retconned for phase 2's Decepticon Cause of equality origin and was there to ultimately serve their subsequent (and separate) becoming betterish arcs relevant to that origin, and then they never got a proper reconciliation together; post-Dark Cybertron Soundwave continued to keep Megatron in mind, whereas Megatron (iirc) doesn't ever think about him in any noteworthy way. (Elaboration/analysis of this will be in whenever I make that analysis post, although trying to analyze IDW 2005 is kind of a headache for me.)

Rarely does Megatron communicate how he feels about Soundwave to him beyond his usefulness/function (e.g. Megatron praising Soundwave in Prime and Sunbow G1). There's IDW Robots in Disguise (2012) #22 ("Ours, Soundwave. The world shall be ours." is a cool line that expresses Megatron wanting to conquer Cybertron with Soundwave, but this scene is a retcon & flashback — it only serves phase 2 Soundwave's arc in the present).

That's not to say Megatron never expresses any thoughts/feelings about Soundwave, of course (various episodes of Prime, Headmasters E02 ["Soundwave! NGHAAAHHHHH" — Galvatron after witnessing him explode], probably some moments from The Transformers (2003) PS2 Japan).

The most explicit of Megatron recognizing Soundwave's importance to him I can think of off of the top of my head is Primacy #2.

Obviously with this post, I think a lot about their relationship can be inferred from the way they interact and talk regardless of how much or little Megatron directly expresses to him. (With this post being for the purpose of shipping, all I mention here is through a shipping potential lens xD).

Perhaps another reason for this ship's lack of popularity, related to the first, is maybe Soundwave is broadly thought of as just a loyalist without knowledge of his other qualities and so people don't think it's interesting? (I could say more on this, but I'll end this post here.)

[shappoxs]

You guys just can't acknowledge the actual reasons people dislike TimBer and exaggerate or cherry-pick specific obviously stupid arguments.

I'll start by saying, ship what you want. There's nothing inherently immoral about TimBer. I make jokes, but I'm definitely not "Anti-Timber," but it gets to a point where you guys are just going-

Most TimBer "haters" are not these caricatures you guys like to paint us as. There are genuine reasons to dislike the ship.

1. It's genuinely bad for both characters. Queer men are allowed to have flaws, too! Yet they've stripped both Tim and Bernard of all of them and brushed any past mistakes under the rug.

Tim and Bernard were not good friends before 2020, and instead of giving them an interesting character arc, the writers just retconned all that and are trying to convince us they were besties.

2. Having Tim and Stephsplit up off-panel is already a disservice to a decades old relationship and Steph as a character. Especially because almost immediately her next appearance is as an accessory to TimBer, to tell the audience, "Actually, you should like them because she would want you to." When that's bullshit!

I'm not saying she should be jealous, but she has every right to be upset at Tim. The fact they did the exact same thing to Ariana, another one of Tim's exes who he hurt, turning her into a one-dimensional TimBer fangirl, feels very misogynistic.

They don't have to be jealous, but don't minimise them, and allow them to have reasonable reactions.

3. The way TimBer was handled feels more biphobic than the average fan reaction. This may be a personal interpretation, but so many moments feels like they're trying to belittle Tim's past relationships with women because he's with a man now. Which pisses me off. TimBer's chemistry comes from us being told about it, but I'm supposed to believe it was more meaningful than what he had with Steph?

I want to see my bisexual characters BE bisexual in ways that aren't stereotypical, but there are ways they could've done that without throwing Steph into a trash bin. As a TimKon shipper, I would be just as pissed if this same scenario played out with Kon instead of Bernard.

Honestly, I don't even want TimKon OR TimSteph if that's how the writers treat these characters. Let them bastardise Tim and Bernard just leave Kon and Steph out of this 😭

4. Most of the "he should cheat" takes are jokes or coming from people who haven't actually read the comics/comic where he actually cheats. Tim only cheated once iirc, but there is still valid criticism to be made about how flawless he's written now that he's with a man.

TimSteph's greatest strength is that we get to see them be a real teenage couple, they both make mistakes but it's watching them grow from them that matters most.

5. I'm fine with platonic TimSteph, but they clearly don't actually value their friendship. I'm also bisexual and grew up a Tim Drake fan, I am the last person who'd want his bisexuality to be erased, but I'd rather them actually do it justice than shrug my shoulders and slurp up any slop they feed us because it's gay.

Finally, I'm sorry if any of this came off as mean. I always try to be respectful even when I'm making jokes or disagreeing with someone, but I'm not perfect. Know that this is a critique of the ship and certain writing choices, not people who just innocently like TimBer.

The mental gymnastics people do to hate timber should be studied under a microscope.

The fuck you mean he is bad bisexual rep because he is dating a man… and how does that makes him gay???? Have you ever talked to a bisexual person???

“Oh it makes less of his past relationships” how?? How?!? Is he not allowed to be infatuated with his current partner? Should he continue pining after his past relationships even tho he is dating someone else???

[qoldenskies]

Thinking about Rise Splinter hate… it always makes me kinda sad. Like YEAH, it wasn’t right the way he treated the boys. But like, Rise is really good at expressing subtle familial dynamics, and one of the big ones for me is the fact that like… there’s always an undercurrent of “It’s complicated” to their interaction with Splinter. IRL, it always pisses me off to see people casting judgments on people’s relationships with their family, because you don’t know!! Yeah, they hurt you, but not everything’s black and white. It’s complicated. Because you love them, and sometimes you get to understand a little bit better why things happened as you get older.

In a matter of smaller importance, hate for him loses so many opportunities in his character… even things that might just be kinda off-handedly mentioned.

He fought for SEVEN years—give me Splinter with chronic pain. Splinter relating to his boys with their neurodivergence—it’s HIS fault they have it!!!

That was seven years of imprisonment, or even simpler, an abusive relationship. What did he learn from that? How did he change? What things are skewed in his worldview?

His childhood! We saw his relationship with his grandfather a bit, but how did Splinter grow into his dream of being a movies star? HIM BEING A MOVIE STAR. He was both a rebellious team and a literal celebrity, this guy probably took empyrean at some point without knowing it, just like. Recreationally or something LMAO.

I maybe just need more of his old man knowledge. Him being so loser-core was a great move by the Rise team, and I could SEE where his story was going—ROBBED. We were ROBBED.

splinter hate is CRAAAAZY when he's such an INTERESTING character who does actually have a lot of obvious depth. like he's goofy and he's objectively flawed as a parent but he does go out of his way to improve himself and LEARN throughout the show, and he does listen and apologize when he knows he's messed up. his issues are so similar to leo's actually, leo's a kid so he's got more leeway to be shitty but idk when people act like its endearing on him and not on splinter. splinter's hilarious free my man

on the other side of the coin i dont really like when people make him a perfect loving parent either,,, i think people going for all kinds of interpretations in order to serve whatever story they need is fine but i do prefer kind of messy parent splinter, i think its kind of sad to see him reduced down to bad or good. he LOVES his boys so dearly and he would NEVER intentionally want to hurt them, but he's quick to cast judgement when he's angered/feels disrespected (evil league of mutants comes to mind, but also in turtle dega nights when donnie first stops the tank) and he's really a lot more inattentive than he should be. but there are REASONS behind this, coming out of an abusive relationship, fighting in bloodsports against his consent for years, you could probably count the whole draxum thing as traumatic (its presented as kind of silly in the show, but considering what it lead to,, its a pivotal moment in the backstory. its one of those things that i reasonably feel can be recontextualized because its so essential) and then dealing with crippling body dysmorphia and being forced into the sewers with no company other than his children,, it really adds up

idk like ,,,, you can still be extremely traumatized and be a horrible parent. in fact trauma can be a direct CAUSE of being a bad parent because that kind of thing influences every facet of your life and if youre unprepared emotionally, yeah. but splinter isn't the kind of person to double down and become more overtly nasty when he feels cornered. if he gets the feeling that his kids are actually upset with him, he backtracks. this is actually kind of a key trait of his, that he does try very hard to correct himself when he messes up. he's communicative and apologetic, and he tries very hard to be that way.

and also this is maybe something that i just have a wider problem with when it comes to the way people interpret things in cartoons at times but splinter's actions in eps like lair games (especially in lair games) and flushed but never forgotten are meant to be like. jokes. its absurdist comedy that's meant to catch you off guard. there are more serious emotional beats in rise you can use but i think when youre adapting this world and characters into a more serious tone you have to keep that kind of thing in mind because some things are meant to be surprising and absurd for the sake of making you laugh. i think the best comparison i can think of is how in musical movies they're not actually singing (in most cases, sometimes the fact that they actually are is played for laughs it depends. but yk what i mean). the joke is that this is kind of a shitty thing he's doing but taking the actions themselves seriously in a vacuum in order to cast shame on a character has always been odd to me. that'd be like calling raph abusive for rolling up the window on mikey's neck in late fee. or calling the teetz murderers because they caused a robot mass suicide that one time. it just doesnt make any sense

[boneles-ss]

I loved the ending of the silt verses for so many reasons: because I’m a sucker for the smoking Chekov’s gun, a thematically rich tragedy, and the sickly sweet stench of a narrative that is ultimately and above all else, hopeful.

We were shown the dangers of hope, in the (in retrospect) most seemingly “out of place” episode in the entire series—the hope motel one with the doomed gay people. It was an amazing episode, do not get me wrong, but listening to it for me was like “okay, so based on this, when is hope going to, once again, bite us in the ass. Or literally bite us idk we had somewhat similar foreshadowing used with the sleep god thing from season 1.”

And of course it would be the finale. Of course it would be reading through the transcript, knowing that there’s a shadow of a chance that Carpenter lived to do all the things she was so ready to do, that she wasn’t giving up, or that she died in the water, on her feet, brought to a prophesied end in the god who could not seem to let her go, but that ultimately, she did NOT GO WILLINGLY.

Of course it would be the unknown of Paige and her caravan, trekking through the polluted lands in search of something kinder, something new, knowing that Paige would leave them behind one day—but that day is not today—and she would see them on. It’s hoping beyond hope that they all escape, that they can make something better out there, and that there are ways for people to follow out of this old world, if they choose to read the signs.

That’s what I think that episode was “for.” Obviously episodes like that don’t NEED to tie into the plot directly, and they’re sometimes narratively more satisfying if they’re left self-contained (the power plant ep was also brilliant in a very similar way (and I’m realizing now that that ep also mirrors Paige’s journey….that should be it’s own post)), but its about the theming, the framing of the tragedy, and the foreshadowing of it all. The motel was tragic and awful because it toyed with our hope—rending it functionally untrustworthy. But we choose to hope anyway (I’ve seen the polls lmao) and we make a good story on our own, in our own minds, out of that ambiguity. The ending to me is so good because WE can choose how it ends. We are given that agency, and I think it’s so satisfying either way! We KNOW the god in the motel was fucking with our hope and eating those who dared to try and we still said BUT WHAT IF-

so what’s the harm in hoping for the best for those whose stories continue after we stop consuming them? Hhhhhh this show and this ending are going to stick with me forever

[gingermintpepper]

Absolutely the funniest thing about my current corner of tumblr is that pretty much everyone I've recently followed for Apollo-Appreciating Purposes are either genuinely Hellenist or just rather very into Rick Riordan's Trials of Apollo series which is wild because I know a net zero about both of those things.

[crab-crime-enthusiast]

Definitely some interesting additions, and something I did contend with when I was writing these. Discussions under the cut with a Content Warning for discussions of Ableism & Disability Curism:

You raise a good point about the inherent ableism present (especially with Pirrha canonically being blind and being forced to cure himself of his own disability in order to be considered of any value), and I do think many deaf Eliksni were either pressured into getting prosthesis/augmentation or... worse. That's a common part of sci-fi/fantasy stories like this, unfortunately, and you see it reflected in conversations about disabled characters in sci-fi/fantasy stories all the time: The age-old debate of "why is my fantasy character in a wheelchair when magic exists?" and etc. etc.

I started thinking about this whole thing because I'm really interested in disability accommodations within these settings (as I'm disabled myself) rather than taking the approach of curism due to its rather... problematic nature. In my story, I wanted to more deeply explore disability within the Destiny universe as it's something woefully ignored for the most-part in canon. I think it's a missed opportunity when one of Destiny's core themes is about persistence and resilience against even the most dire of odds. I promise this isn't intended to be me shilling for my fic, I'm just talking about my thought processes! ^.^''

The interpretation I ended up going with for Sign (which I unfortunately forgot to include in my post x_x) was that some Conversational Sign persisted through the knowledge of a few select individuals who continued to pass it on and down despite most likely being pressured to augment their hearing. Military Sign, on the other hand, is a much more robust system due to the turn to a heavily militaristic culture, with information on it more readily available.

However, as information sources dwindled, Conversational Sign diverged into strong dialects as users filled in gaps in knowledge with their own contributions, which then persisted into any individuals they ended up passing their knowledge on to. Going back to my fic in particular, Kiraks learned Military Sign and then kinda made it up as she went due to a lack of a tutor when it came to creating a system of Conversational Sign. Her system of Sign is something she made up with her sister as a way to reclaim some independence after she lost her ability to speak.

The nature of the dissemination of sign knowledge meant that highly specific (and possibly even 'incorrect' sign) dialects became the norm, simply as sources about a more centralised and consistent language dwindled both to the brutal nature of the Drift and forced augmentation essentially drastically reducing the population that actively spoke Conversational Sign; Any chance of a centralised language realistically died off with the perishing of all but one of the Judgement Scribes. Variks would likely be the best source for possibly learning something akin to true Riisian sign (especially as I personally headcanon he has permanent vocal damage after Phylaks choked him in The Once-Shipstealer, and thus he sometimes uses non-verbal communication), but even his knowledge would likely be something not wholly applicable due to the high levels of variance now present in the speakers that remain.

A bit of a tangent, but I wonder if the actual usability of conversational sign would be affected by whether Eliksni Hatchlings take to augmentation from youth or not, as I imagine one of the main use-cases for conversational sign post-Drift would most realistically be giving Hatchlings a way to communicate until they're at an age that they can take to augments without danger to their life. I personally don't know if there are any sources that mention the augmentation of Hatchlings in the lore so I can't really make a call. If anybody does, please feel free to add them to this convo, I'd love to learn more!

I'm sorry to have dumped a mini-essay on you in this reblog, I just have a lot of thoughts about this topic ;-; Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

Eliksni Sign Language

Soooo in writing the next Chapter for The Light Provides, I've decided to write up some notes about the Eliksni Sign Language I have Kiraks speaking within the story. She's not deaf but is completely mute save for some chitters, and this lead me down a route of theorising about the different forms that Eliksni Sign Language can take. This isn't everything and I'm still building on the idea, but just putting what I have down. Ramblings below the cut:

Disclaimer: I don't speak sign language irl but I've taken somewhat of an interest in it due to living with someone who is partially deaf. This is just me spitballing about a system implemented in the world of my fic, building mostly on the idea of how a four-armed species with different ideas of social communication may develop a system of non-verbal communication. Please let me know if there is anything offensive and I'll remove it. It's never my intent to hurt anybody.

Basic/Background Notes:

Sign language not a standardised/centralised language due to the Long Drift and the splintering of Eliksni culture.

Dialects vary massively between Houses, especially as there is little to no remaining documentation about the language and only a few speak it.

Eliksni wishing to learn the language often must seek out a tutor who already knows it to get more than a very basic grasp on signing, leading to the perpetuation of House-specific dialects.

Glyphic alphabet remains mostly consistent between House Dialects, but syntax may differ.

High degrees of variation with subdialects of House-specific sign language developing to suit the wider range of body types present post-Whirlwind.

Cultural variations of sign language poses issues with unification attempts e.g. House Salvation, House Light & House Dusk.

TL;DR Sign language is tricky and complex with many different slightly different variations due to the Long Drift, making it difficult to learn and not applicable cross-Houses.

Denoting Tone:

A major degree of dialect variation comes from the favouring of facial expressions versus body language to denote tone.

Piggybacking a bit off of Eliksni expressions headcanons, but positioning of mandibular hairs as well as mandibles and nictitating membranes used to convey tone in dialects that favour facial features.

This form is more overtly favoured by mute Eliksni, whether that be due to developmental issues, psychological factors or physical conditions & damage to their voices.

Some utilise natural subvocalisations too, but this is rare, especially amongst Deaf speakers.

Some deaf speakers of this form may learn to understand patterns of vibrations associated with subvocalisations and learn to mimic them, if they did not know them prior e.g. Hatched profoundly deaf or suffered hearing damage in very early youth.

In this case, their vocalisations may sound 'off' to other Eliksni, a bit like a speech impediment.

Dialects that favour body language utilises things such as scent markers in conjunction with the position of the lower arms to denote tone.

Mandible snaps or clicks in communication are instead denoted through a claw tapping motion produced by pinching the claws together (Think like tapping the thumb to the middle and index finger). Claws simulate clicking sound.

Lower arms make tonal indications whilst upper arms are used for signing actual words or phrases. This developed due to the lower set of arms being naturally less strong and precise than the upper arms, making them less suited to prolonged sessions of extremely quick signing when in conversation.

Naturally, this form of sign does not accommodate for Eliksni who have been docked, but one-handed versions of this dialect have been developed by some docked speakers.

Nouns and names:

Common nouns and proper nouns have their own special designated signs

Regular names are instead either spelled out of their individual letters or, in some dialects, compressed down into their constitute syllables.

Syllables are often comprised of shortened individual letter signs, following common sounds like the way there are specific glyphs in the Eliksni written alphabet for sounds like "kk", "rr", "im".

Other Notes:

Using both sets of arms to sign primary language is viewed almost akin to shouting.

[tibtew]

*clutching head* rodya and meursault would have such a good dynamic actually

I wonder if rodya would initially see meursault's indifference as like. a simpler version of her own feigned carefreeness and as a deliberate attempt to place himself as an outsider... only to realise that No, he really Is just Like That. and then she gets annoyed because it turns out that people who don't care about anything don't seem to be any fun.

(ofc he does actually care about a lot of things, just not necessarily his grander place in the world lol)

idk. nihilism vs absurdism. fun duo 👍 rodya would find meursault's genuine comfort with being a speck of dust in the universe baffling, while he would probably find her desire to assert her own importance pointless, but they could probably bond over little things like their shared desire to live in the present and appreciation of/indulgence in earthly joys. and meursault would probably listen if rodya wants to rant about anything without asking any uncomfortable questions. I think they could appreciate each other's presence.

[lycanpunk666]

Okay so like. In general I think it's good to have multiple interpretations of how a certain plot point went if it's not explicit-- As I think that fandom hive mind is bad and can get really boring. However, I think that in general there's a difference between "multiple interesting implications of a specific ending" and "failure to read between the lines" (though this is generally pretty subjective considering stories in general all have to do with personal perception). On the second note this isn't necessarily about interpreting a story 'wrong' this is more about failure to grasp an author's intention about a scene just because it's not spoon-fed. I'm talking in circles and being overly neutral here but generally speaking, for the sake of argument, I like to treat fiction as having two parts to it that I separate (similar to how I separate what is my favorite thing from what I think is the best): How I perceive what the "real" story is/what is actually occurring entirely based on canon events and deducted subtext (I think a lot of samgirl Tumblr does this in the supernatural fandom, as an example), vs personal expansions/wider guesses based on what I think SHOULD be happening-- which might just get a bit more prevalent in my mind if I just. Think an author is making a really stupid writing decision (I do this constantly when talking about shows like disventure camp) This post is more about open discussion and I don't want to make it seem like I'm judging people

[todayisafridaynight]

OH about the finale at the shrine, this completely slipped my notice when we were talking about it, but Ichi says he's "reporting" Jo's verdict to both Arakawa and Masato. It's just not translated that way.

Not too big of a difference (well, it is to me, but I'm insane), but if it was highlighting anything, I'd guess it's probably Masato's change of heart. It would've been fair for Ichi to assume Masato wouldn't care and only "report" to Arakawa, but in the context of Ichi doing his damnedest to show Masato they all love him, it works in terms of, "Maybe I made him reconsider, and maybe now he would care."

Also... I'm looking at it in a "measured" way, since the chapter trophies are always just standard "Nth Chapter Cleared" messages that the localization team just spices up for us, but there's something I find really poignant about the Chapter 13 trophy being worded as "Fate of Our Fathers." The pluralization of both the noun and pronoun. Realizations that come too late.

Of course, Masato definitely didn't "know" and had no real reason to suspect it, but the Arakawas have this bizarre subconscious almost-psychic link. So even if he doesn't really think so, there's this sense that Ichi "might as well" be Arakawa's "real" son because they're so much more alike. And maaaybe he felt that way about Jo and himself at one point, because (as we've discussed) there has to be a reason Jo was Masato's "favorite."

[Follow up to this ask]

[nicorobinphd]

my favourite part about being multigender to this day is something i realized within a couple weeks of coming out to myself, which is that i get to be a better man than the very misogynistic & violent men i’m related to while also still being a woman. i get to be fucking poetry.

(if you’re confused as to why you’re seeing this, read the tags. there’s a one piece post hidden there.)

(also, like just because i exhibit the paranoia of a terminally online hermit™️ deprived of an habitat enrichment, & because this website is hellish, i want to be clear that i’m not trying to exceptionalize @ the expense of monogender trans people who come to similar realizations, we are doing the same thing in a different genre.)

[katiekatdragon27]

Sup gang, I have more doodles to shaaaaare~~

So, I recently got Glisten, and he is so fun to play as. So fun to play as in fact that I constantly play distractor on accident! It's so fun (lying)!! Both images are based on a run my friend and I had together with a few randoms in a public server. It was the farthest I've ever gotten and a blast.

You ain't never seen a distractor like meee✌���✌️✌️✌️✌️

On the topic of running, here are some doodles of Shrimpo and Pebble getting into conflict. Peb protects his owner, and if that means attacking the only dude who could pummel him in hand-to-hand combat, so be it lol.

Luckily Shrimpo doesn't like getting bit, so Dandy and Pebble get to live another day.

Below are a toooooon of shinyshrimp doodles (and a slightly suggestive joke so tread with caution lol):

Mmmmm gay men.

Glisten: "I couldn't imagine you getting any redder but you surprise me~" Shrimpo: "AAAAAAAAAA-"

What's gayer? Being gay? Or what these two have going on?

Domestic slice-of-life stuff. I think Shimpo has insomnia but tends to find comfort and sleep in human contact. Toodles has nightmares on occasion and appreciates snuggling when they occur. Glisten isn't the cuddly type, but when the people in his life need comfort, he's willing to put up with the cuddles lol. Also Glisten sleeps with an ungodly number of pillows.

Also, a funny idea I had about how short Shrimpo is compared to Glisten. That's how Glisten sees him lol.

And also..

I caved.

Here.

Shinyshrimp child upon ye🫳🫳🫳🫳

Dandy: "How the F*CK did this happen?!"

Her name is Shimmer, and she's based on an Asian Glass Shrimp (for hopefully obvious reasons). She's a sweet girl who is really really nosy lol. Just imagine Gwen from the movie Migration lol.

Also, no toons have ever created a toon themselves (it's only done if the humans working there made one by using the ichor machines), so Dandy is kinda flabbergasted about the whole thing. Ima leave it up to interpretation how they did it (cuz I have my personal hc that I'll share if people show interest lol) but it's not sexual lol.

Anyways pookies, have a good one!!

[bloodblanks]

do homicipher characters experience arousal?

i want to preface this by saying that i am not in any way, shape, or form criticizing other homicipher writers and/or their headcanons. i absolutely adore the work i’ve seen from everyone and am grateful to be able to read it! this is simply my personal thoughts on this topic so i hope it doesn’t come across like i’m trying to demean anyone else’s work.

additional note: i write reader insert so i will be referring to us as the reader rather than mc, but my post should work for both interpretations ^^

this is something i’ve been thinking about a lot since i’m working on some nsfw homicipher headcanons myself. from what i’ve read, a lot of homicipher work headcanon the characters as not really experiencing and/or knowing what arousal is, at least until they meet the reader (which is extremely endearing and flattering, i love the concept, and there’s nothing wrong with it!) but i personally came to the conclusion that homicipher characters do experience arousal, and have experienced it before meeting the reader. however, i believe their perception of arousal differs from ours.

to start, the reason i think they experience arousal to begin with, is because arousal isn’t just an emotional or mental response, but also a physiological function. similar to other physical needs (ie: food, sleep, water)—which i think they also require though that’s for another post—arousal doesn’t necessarily require conscious thought or emotional processes. arousal can be merely a response to touch or certain sensory inputs, something that happens regardless of how we think or feel.

while i think arousal is a natural function for them, i don’t believe they are likely to have had sex with other homicipher characters. the reason for that is also why i say they experience arousal differently—they don’t understand attraction. this is based on both my personal bias of wanting them to ourselves, but also the in game interactions with mr. hood and mr. silvair, where they fail to grasp the concept of ‘liking’ an individual.

since they don’t experience attraction (yet!), i imagine their perception of arousal would be a mechanical or instinctual one; just something their bodies respond to. much like thoughtlessly scratching an itch, they likely address it more as a physical need to take care of, rather than associating it with any deeper desires or having it directed/related to another person.

my silly little reader insert loving self does insist that they feel some sort of attraction towards us, though, which i believe will be a newfound feeling for them that can change how they experience arousal. with them able to feel attraction towards us, their once neutral and unassuming need can become something more intimate, romantic, or even obsessive depending on the character.

tl;dr homicipher characters have always experienced arousal but only as a bodily function, as they don’t understand attraction until meeting and developing interest in the reader, which changes their perception of arousal to something more complex and intimate.

thank you everyone for reading my silly little shower thoughts. i hope this was coherent enough and made sense! (>^ω^<)

feel free to leave any of your thoughts below if you have any comments on this! and feel free to argue with me if you think i’m yapping nonsense... (･･;)

[squidthusiast]

Ok, but why do I imagine Eight being the unofficial child of Pearl x Marina?

Because I imagine Eight was minding their business and all of a sudden, Pearl would slam the paper down and said “You’re adopted now”

Basically OTH at the start of their world tour haha, I love that they took Eight with them.

I have more detailed thoughts under the cut for those interested in my ramblings, analysis and interpretations of the characters.

Disclaimer: This is my own take on it, don’t let it ruin your fun!

I personally don’t really subscribe to the fandom’s ‘pearlina moms’ headcanon.

On the one hand, I am an absolute sucker for the ‘found family’ trope, and I definitely think Agent 8 and OTH fit in it!

On the other hand, I think people immediately put Pearl and Marina into the ‘parenthood’ box, a little too eagerly. Not saying this specific ask is that, btw, it just reminded me of some instances i’ve seen.

I personally think that the relationship between OTH and Agent 8 is a little more nuanced & sibling-esque, for the following reasons:

1. Within canon, we often see 8 being referred to as a friend by both Pearl and Marina.

Pearl does it more explicitly (see that one interview at her house), whereas with Marina it’s more insinuated (ex. In the Side Order dev diaries, she starts calling Agent 8 as ‘Eight’, which is stated to be a name used by their friends).

Pearl seems to be an accidental-duck-parent of sorts who haphazardly collects octoling teenagers & young musical talent. It goes in line with her whole mentor-esque leader personality, and i’m sure these disoriented teens find relief in an idol who seemingly knows what she’s doing (she really doesn’t).

However she doesn’t act in a parental manner. More-so like your estranged gay cousin who hit it big in another country and is down to show your queer little butt the ropes.

Marina on the other hand seems to have a more empathetic approach with Agent 8 (opposite to Pearl’s brashness). Marina clearly connects with Agent 8 through their shared experience as defected octoling soldiers, and probably sees her younger self in them. She’s already caring as it is, but this is accentuated during octo expansion given the circumstances.

I feel however that, unlike Pearl, Marina has a bit of a harder time actually forming a bond with Eight at the beginning. Their similarities (seemingly) end at their shared experience, and probably leaves Marina awkwardly wondering how to approach them further. What we can assume though is that they become closer friends during OTH’s world tour, given the events described in the Memverse Dev Diaries.

Meeting Eight during difficult circumstances (OE) and helping them get out creates a sense of camaraderie between them, which probably devolves into genuine care, established friendship and a strong bond amongst the three overtime.

2. Pearl and Marina are very career-centric both in Splat 2 and 3.

It is reasonable that the two young idols, who see their fame and musical recognition rise spectacularly & fast, are not particularly interested in settling down at this point in their lives.

Now entering her late 20s, Pearl is most definitely still interested in keeping the ball rolling with Off the Hook’s international success. Her character often points towards restlessness, freedom and discovery. There has definitely been character development in regards to her maturity in Splatoon 3, but these aforementioned traits are still ever present in her demeanour & decision-making.

Marina on the other hand can be seen slowly blossoming from a supporting character to being her own person. She definitely develops more self-confidence by Splatoon 3, but is still naturally bashful. It’s clear that she is allowing herself to explore & open up to new things for her own sake. She remains a caring and somewhat nurturing individual, but she is at a stage where she’s learning to live for herself and not for others.

Parenthood (and all the responsibilities and sacrifices it entails) at this moment of their lives would probably freak Pearl out, and stunt Marina’s personal growth.

3. The age gaps between OTH and Agent 8 are too close for it to create a parent/kid bond.

This makes their relationship a little hazy in regards to roles; 8 is still young enough that they may seek out rolemodels and mentors (still relatively influenceable), but they’re also nearing their 20s. By this point they are fairly self sufficient, have a sense of their personal values & identity, and they are relatively responsible & mature.

Pearl and Marina are 8’s seniors by approximately 4-6 years. However, in Splatoon 2 they’re entering their early 20s and their career has just begun to take off.

They are both still relatively youngsters, albeit older & more mature(? glancing at Pearl) youngsters than 8. This places them in a position where they can guide 8 and offer certain support and resources, but lack the maturity and experience of a full-fledged adult. This would approximate their relationship closer to that of siblings in a family setting.

Pearl & Marina are also less likely to feel a duty towards Eight as an adult would with a child. Instead, the latter’s circumstances are more likely to incite feelings of rapport and compassion as a fellow young inkfish.

Now, with all of this said, I will acknowledge that friendship/found family is MUCH more nuanced than a strict binary.

From personal experience in my last years of college, I did find myself caring for my fellow freshmen as though they were my kids, in certain ways. Hell, I called them my kids.

I acted as a proud parent whenever some of them achieved something, attempted to pass down my knowledge to them, and was protective of them to a certain extent.

They also annoyed me sometimes, like younger people do haha. And i’m sure I annoyed them too!

So I wouldn’t put it past OTH to call Eight their kid and have this mentor/parent-esque rapport with them in certain circumstances.

This is all based both on canon & my own interpretations of it, but still closely aligned to what has been shown in-game.

So if you have a different interpretation of Agent 8 and OTH, that’s great! I love to see people’s personal headcanons. Ultimately, Agent 8 is meant to be somewhat of a blank slate for the players to mold, with some hinted-at personality traits of their own.

As long as you have fun with these characters, that’s all that matters. This is just my personal opinion on their relationship in-game.

If you read all of this, you deserve the biggest golden star for listening to my incessant yapping 🤲⭐️

Feel free to bother me about this or other opinions you may have in my inbox, just be kind please!